Takahashi FSQ-85EDX [visual]

[josefk]

Well. It's taken me since March 2020 to finally commit to this scope. So many rainy Sunday afternoons over the last three years reading about it and getting close to buying it then getting my head turned by "just a few more mm aperture" (usually the NP101) and paralysing myself in calculations for limiting magnitude and Rayleigh limits. A few months would pass and i would return to it again and get excited all over again. Well now for better or worse the deed is done. I'm going all in with the FSQ-85 for my GnG and for visual only. A fool and his money and all that...

[josefk]

i'll put a few pics and few weights and dimensions of the FSQ in this thread later (i struggled to find definitive and useful information myself) but before then i'm just going to put this here (a tribute to my till now most hardworking scope):

 

This Swarovski bird spotting scope has been my GnG for several years. It displaced a Celestron Omni 120mm Achro on a GEM (G4?) because i ended up finding the 120mm refractor just too heavy and tedious to carry out to a nearby park (i don't have a garden). The ATX95 is a 95mm APO with field flattening elements. It gives me 2-degrees and x30 at the wide end (at 3.2mm exit pupil) and a little over 1-degree at x70 and 1.4mm exit pupil at the top end if i don't use an extender. It's sharp to the edge, impervious to dew and condensation and weighs just 2.7kg. It is the Land Rover and the Masda MX-5 of the telescope world! 

A few greatest hits for this scope include: about a hundred DSO 1sts including M33 (at MPSAS 21.9) and NGC 1999 (at MPSAS 24.4), numerous PNe and faint stellar PNe 1sts including IC 351 at m11.9 and Kohoutek 2-1 at m12, numerous double stars down to about the 4" level of separation (tightest being Struve 227 at 3.8"), all the planets except Mercury, NEB/SEB on Jupiter, albedo features on Mars, Rhea and Titan with Saturn and Venus (most recently at just 2.4% illumination). Its also brought me two comets (NEOWISE and C/2022 E3). I think the smallest Luna feature has been Gambert-G at 5km and for full disk Luna the "right way round - right way up" view is great. 

In short this scope has been a reliable trooper and it isn't going to get fully retired.

What it can't do is easily give me mag over x70 (and that fact limits doubles not glass quality), it has never shown me the polar cap on Mars (Mars flares quite a bit in this scope), and i've never had the contrast to see M110 (M31/32 loads but never M110), and i've never seen M101 at MPSAS 23.3 or M109 at MPSAS  22.4 through it even though i try both quite often. Fatally i also can't comfortably point it more steeply than 45-degrees. All of these things i expect to fix with 10mm less aperture and the FSQ. hahahahahahahahahah. It has big boots to fill!

Edited August 23, 2023 by josefk
sense

[josefk]

now some Takky pics: 

Symmetrical cradle (it isn't really on upside down)

 

nice and short (important to me for GnG):

[josefk]

pointing looks promising on the Manfrotto MVH612 (this is with nearly all the counterbalance dialled off):

 

and coatings here are creating an invisible objective (nearly):

 

right now i'm off to fit a Clicklock.

[josefk]

1st check on back focus /focus travel looks good. On pylon tops about 1km away everything from a 31NT5 (my most in-focus EP) and 8mm Ethos (my most out-focus EP) look good. I had a bit to spare for in-focus so hopefully even nearer infinity i should be OK. This is with a 2" diagonal and no spacers but including the CAA which i do want to keep on if i can.

Maxbright BV's with 1.7GPC and 24mm Panoptic don't come to focus though (at least with the CAA left on). I have a 2.6GPC on order for different reasons but maybe this will help me out here too.

i'm also now relieved at committing to it finally this time - this thing is flat and sharp!

[JeremyS]

Looks splendid. Glad to see you e gone with the traditional clamshell. 
Are you using a finder or is the main field wide enough?

Views through the N31T5 will be amazing 👍🏻

Looking forward to first light.

[josefk]

the 31NT5 will give me a whopping 5.7 degrees :-). Also another reason why i've jumped this time. My astigmatism has gotten to the point it impacts my binocular views (which i enjoy) and i'm not going to wear glasses with them. With this scope i'm hoping dioptrx will help me out.

The jury is out on a finder. I would like to fit at least an RDF to speed up initial pointing but i'm also drawn to a finder so i can leave a short FL EP in the diagonal between objects. My challenge for both is I like my whole kit to be low down (i use a short stool) so it's tricky to get either RDF or finder high enough and far enough forward that i can get behind them without sitting on the floor. I don't fancy a RACI finder on this kit.

1st light will be at first opportunity everything else be damned. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by josefk

[HollyHound]

That looks like it could be a really superb wide field scope... will be very interested to see how this pans out (no pun intended) 😃

This is of course normally used by imagers, so visual use could be awesome 🤞

Congratulations on the addition to your stable 👍

[ollypenrice]

I did look through my FSQ85 and it was truly remarkable for its aperture. On the other hand, it's heavy and it would be easy to have more aperture for less weight.

Don't scratch the rear element with your diagonal - not that you haven't thought about this. 

Olly

[josefk]

19 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

I did look through my FSQ85 and it was truly remarkable for its aperture. On the other hand, it's heavy and it would be easy to have more aperture for less weight.

Don't scratch the rear element with your diagonal - not that you haven't thought about this. 

Olly

Well I hadn’t thought about it till you said! 😱

[josefk]

Short @ollypenrice panic over. I’m not sticking my finger in to check but the rear element looks a long way away and it looks like there is a balk at the back of the focussed anyway. Phew. 
 

Edited August 23, 2023 by josefk

[josefk]

33 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

On the other hand, it's heavy and it would be easy to have more aperture for less weight.

It would be easy to have more aperture for less money too. 
I’ve been here before and everything gets bigger by tiny salami sliced decisions  and I was very keen to avoid that . 

For me it had to be a flat FOV finally so that effectively made it a choice of three scopes, the FSQ106 is way too much money for GnG (and I didn’t fancy used on this type of scope). It’s been the NP101 that has alway turned my head (4” sweet spot blah blah blah) but it’s longer physically and in focal length. It is the longer physically aspect that I didn’t fancy. 
 

my little spotter scope above weighs 6.1kg all in scope + mount + tripod. I haven’t weighed this one yet but I think it’s going to be nearer 9kg plus EP case. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by josefk

[mikeDnight]

I'm sure you'll have years of fun and adventure with your beautiful new FSQ. Size does matter, as if you don't use it because its too much of a hand full,  bigger becomes an obstacle to enjoyment. It will certainly show you far more than a scope you wont use.

[josefk]

Especially in the UK @mikeDnight  I haven’t been out for more than a 45 minute session since the end of May and that is UK skies putting the brakes on not lack of trying on my part!  
 

Having an easy option to get out does at least mean those short windows get used. 

[ollypenrice]

10 hours ago, josefk said:

Short @ollypenrice panic over. I’m not sticking my finger in to check but the rear element looks a long way away and it looks like there is a balk at the back of the focussed anyway. Phew. 
 

The design may have changed slightly. On mine the rear element was vulnerable, at least from memory. Anyway, better safe than sorry!

Olly

[josefk]

Absolutely better safe than sorry no doubt @ollypenrice. I think it did change at some point in the series and i think the 85mm and the 106mm are now different (whereas they had commonality in the past) - i believe the current 106 still exposes the rear elements quite "openly" (you will know better than me re. the current 106 of course).  

[josefk]

So a few weights and dims. These are a little bit hard to fathom from Takahashi published figures because it depends how you have it configured i suppose. i would have appreciated these when kicking the tyres previously...

• "packable" length set up with the CAA left in place followed by a Baader 2" clicklock but no spacers thereafter: 445mm.
• "packable" height (tallness) in the symmetrical cradle tak_tka21420g: 155mm (would be 11mm less allowing for the manfrotto plate i have fitted already)
• "packable" width in the same cradle: 170mm. it would be narrower by maybe 10mm even in the cradle if i had the cradle opening and the micro-focuser knob on the same side.

Weight:

• 3468g OTA only plus one half of a finder quick release
• 4438g OTA and cradle and manfrotto plate (120g less w/o the plate)
• 5035g OTA+cradle+plate+tak 7x50 finder

Edited August 24, 2023 by josefk

[josefk]

So the whole point of this FSQ is to up my GnG capability over my super light spotter while keeping it as simple and light as possible so I can hump it to a nice locally dark deer park about 300…400m from my house without too much friction or effort. This is for evenings where I may only get an hour or maybe two rather than a more considered two or three where I’d be using bigger kit. 
 

My main EP case is just shy of 7kg. Last night I found that’s still a bit too much to carry along with everything else so here’s a grab and go “bug out kit” ready to go sans finder and diagonal which can go in a little camera bag. 
 

x19, x56, x90, x113, & x136 covered in a relatively light way. Put another way >3-degrees sweeper, 100-degree AFOV high contrast workhorse and 3x sub 1mm exit pupil peepers. 
 

For info - the often recommended (for this scope) peli 1535 is a tight fit in the depth dimension! 

[John]

7 minutes ago, josefk said:

..... This is for evenings where I may only get an hour or maybe two rather than a more considered two or three where I’d be using bigger kit. 
 

 

 

That is a very nice outfit 👍

Is cool down an issue with a quadruplet ?

[josefk]

The short answer @John is don't know yet 🙂 but i read not i.e the reputation of the smaller FSQ is for fairly quick acclimation. 

TBH with any other scope i find while they're cooling down i'm warming up - i.e. "getting my eye in" and it takes me about thirty minutes before i'm ready for anything too serious anyway so while i can see cooldown affects (in other scopes) I find i'm not normally trying to make an observation in that moment of the sort where it bothers me too much...

[Concordia000]

I have acquired the baby Q recently myself, and I happened to own the NP-101 a while back. 

The NP-101 was a great scope which gave me a lot of nice wide field views — I actually preferred looking through it than using it for imaging, and I am more of an imager. The flat field is great for stuff like the Pleiades and it has enough light gathering power for most objects. However, on the moon I actually prefer my LOMO triplet’s view, which I felt was more detailed and more “correct”.

As for the weight, it wasn’t particularly heavy at 5kg so it was easy enough to lug around. The issue was its length — it can’t be carried in carry on and taking it on public transport was very inconvenient.

The baby Q is much smaller and easy to carry around. It’s lighter than the NP-101, but it felt denser. I have not yet tested it, but no doubt it would be excellent. I actually think it might be easier to carry around compared to the FC-76DCU, which would have to be split in two parts, though that scope is significantly lighter (but damn, I hate that focuser).

If I wanted a purely visual scope and carry-on-ability isn’t a concern, I will probably get the FC-100DC/DZ. There’s something magical about fluorite scopes for visual — the view just seems clearer.

 

Edit:  I got More Blue rings because they are lighter than the cradle by like, 500g. I think Takahashi sells lots of their scopes bundled with MB rings in Japan.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Concordia000

[josefk]

Thanks for the feedback @Concordia000. i would definitely be interested in your thoughts once you've had chance to look through the baby Q a little bit but only if you find nice things  - don't tell me if in your recollection the NP-101 was better! 🙂 

My use case is to carry my gear on foot for 300...400 meters and set up. Everything has to go in one trip - scope, EP's tripod, mount, stool, sketching gear, ipad or atlas. 

Everything is balanced - if the scope gets longer the tripod needs to be set taller (so possibly needs to be heavier) and mount does need to be heavier...the EP swings through more arc so the stool needs to be taller etc. etc. I fear it would be easy to get carried away then this particular kit would no longer be optimised for its primary use case.

I think (from experience) my practical limit is 7 or 8kg in each hand and a small satchel. Anything more becomes an uncomfortable trek.

BTW i had a super brief first light on the moon Thursday. i know i'm in business. 

[Stuart1971]

Congrats on your new scope, I owned one for 3 years for imaging, and it was extremely poor with modern small pixel cameras, and the old design of the optics, so I sold it, but as you are visual only you will love it I’m sure….and the views will be superb…👍🏻

[josefk]

First proper first light last night for the new born baby. We are going to get on like a house on fire. 😀

It wasn't a grab n go session so i had a full gamut of EPs to play with. The evening was a beautiful warm evening were observing was a pleasure even if the sky wasn't totally crystal clear. I estimate an AL transparency grade of 6 using the stars in UMi and good seeing (Pickering 7) even while there were waves of warm bouncy air apparent for moments when observing Saturn, Jupiter and the moon was washing the sky out in a southerly direction more than the visibility of the stars in UMi would suggest.

The whole session was a kit shakedown session so not a particular curated list of targets.

First up starting at Vega hopping over the Coathanger (finder only) to Albireo. Albireo was lovely at x56 and x113 but honestly it wasn't't the most aesthetic view of this pair that i've ever had. It wasn't yet properly dark and i think the blue and lemon here are prettier together at lower magnifications. Working a touch outside or inside of focus strengthened a bronze view of the primary and middle blue hue of the secondary. Interestingly (i think) inside of focus with the TOE showed a slightly softer diffraction pattern than outside of focus. I'm not sure what contribution my prism diagonal is making with this faster scope so i will check this again more thoroughly another night. The Ethos was perfect either side.

As it got darker nearby M56 and M57 were next. Both nice and clear and enjoyable at x56. The Ring dimmed but stayed enjoyable at x113. Both revealing more than i have seen before with this amount of aperture. No hint of colour in the Ring but decent (subtle) brightness variation across the smokey circle.

From here it was a short jump back the Epsilon Lyra 1 & 2. Nether split at x56. Epsilon2 split nicely and clearly at x90 (Tak 5mm LE), and widened with a TOE 4mm for x113 and TOE 3.3mm for x136. At x136 the classic car headlights with a single diffraction ring (each) was apparent.Very nice! Epsilon1 didn't split at x90, the split was detectable at x113 and was clear at x136. This is a step up in star splitting capability versus my previous grab n go and exactly what i was looking for.

From here  (via a wasted detour to Andromeda - i didn't beat the moon washing this whole direction out) i dropped in on Saturn. Only my second observation this year. Superb. A lovely sharp lemon coloured rendition with hints of bands/belts in the northern hemisphere (also an upgrade in resolution capability over my previous GnG). Titan was clear and obvious but with a bit of time spent looking around i could also identify and observe Lapetus at some distance removed from Saturn (as part of a chevron asterism pointing back at Saturn). SSP has Lapetus at mag11.2. There was  a little glare around Saturn itself but TBH the moon was also glaring naked eye at the same time so i attribute this glare to atmosphere rather than kit. All the other moons of Saturn were masked by and travelling in this glare i think. On this showing (and it wasn't a perfect night for testing) i didn't see any discernible difference in resolution/detail/colour on Saturn between an 8mm Ethos plus power mate for 4mm equivalence and the 4mm TOE. The powermate combo gave a longer drift time for sure (welcome) but it was also really long and unwieldy (VERY unwelcome). It really wasn't a great night for testing as i couldn't detect the Cassini division in any combo so the observation on EPS is practically worthless.

Finally i panned over to Jupiter. I've posted in the sketching forum that it was immediately apparent Jupiter had a dimple on the North eastern limb. It was Ganymede travelling out of occultation and it was a super unexpected and a pleasure and a joy to watch (a few minutes earlier or later and i would have missed it). Jupiter showed momentary flickers of the STB/NTB and this was the third "upgrade" capability of the night over my previous little scope (i've only seen the NEB/SEB in a small scope before).

All in all a fantastic session, a relief to be out after a long hiatus, it was lovely and warm, the scope was everything i hoped and the fluid head mount is going to be terrific once it becomes second nature to dial in a tad more or less counterbalance when changing EPs.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by josefk

[josefk]

These two configurations are both in focus on a pylon about 1km away. Spot the obvious difference...

2" 2x Powermate:

Takahashi Extender-ED 1.5x:

As much as i get a lot of utility out of the powermate when used after the diagonal it drives me insane that the same powermate when used before a diagonal needs such a huge extension to reach focus. I have no idea what is going on from the perspective of the lightpath geometry. Balance is a nightmare as you can imagine.

The Tak extender at 1.5x gives me some really useful virtual focal lengths and avoids some very short (possibly one trick pony) EPs in this scope and the TOA.